From fsspr@acad3.alaska.edu Mon Mar 29 20:31:32 1993 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: fsspr@acad3.alaska.edu (Sean Patrick Ryan) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.bbs,alt.bbs.allsysop,alt.bbs.internet,alt.bbs.lists.d,alt.bbs.metal,alt.bbs.pcbuucp,alt.bbs.searchlight,alt.bbs.unixbbs,comp.bbs.misc,comp.bbs.waffle Subject: RFD: comp.bbs.{searchlight,wanted,wwiv} Followup-To: news.groups Date: 26 Mar 1993 10:46:41 -0500 Organization: alaska.edu Lines: 216 Sender: tale@rodan.UU.NET Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net Message-ID: <1ov8h1INN97o@rodan.UU.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3356 news.groups:68515 alt.bbs:16682 alt.bbs.allsysop:1434 alt.bbs.internet:7168 alt.bbs.lists.d:260 alt.bbs.metal:36 alt.bbs.pcbuucp:1 alt.bbs.searchlight:29 alt.bbs.unixbbs:307 comp.bbs.misc:2582 comp.bbs.waffle:8277 This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) to create three new newsgroups in the comp.bbs.* sub-hierarchy. These newsgroups, as proposed, are to be called comp.bbs.searchlight, comp.bbs.wanted and comp.bbs.wwiv. All are to be unmoderated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPOSAL #1 - Create comp.bbs.searchlight PURPOSE - The newsgroup comp.bbs.searchlight would be for general discussion related to the Searchlight BBS software. RATIONALE - This newsgroup was proposed in alt.config recently as an alt.* group. Apparently, it was created, but has seen little if any traffic so far. The idea behind creating the comp.bbs.* sub-hierarchy during the spring of 1992 was to eventually replace the alt.bbs.* sub- hierarchy. Unfortunately, this has not been the case so far. alt.bbs.* has remained popular, and most of the new group proposals have been for that sub-hierarchy. IMO, this greatly reduces the chances that these groups have to survive, simply due to the differences in propagation that exist between altnet and mainstream Usenet. And as well, single-software newsgroups more logically belong in mainstream Usenet, IMO. CONTENT - Appropriate topics for comp.bbs.searchlight would include: Questions and answers on where to obtain the software Setting up the software Configuring doors and utilities The future development of the software, either as envisioned by the readers of the newsgroup or by the author Networking issues related to Searchlight Lists of BBSes running the software; ads for individual BBSes should be highly discouraged, though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPOSAL #2 - Create comp.bbs.wanted PURPOSE - The newsgroup comp.bbs.wanted would be for making and answering requests related to BBSes and BBSing. RATIONALE - Going back to the very first days of alt.bbs, all BBS- related newsgroups have been plagued by the incessant "I want XXX access in XXX area code" type posts, and other request-type posts as well. Usually, these articles are posted indiscriminately by people, are found in a large number of different newsgroups and are posted without very much regard to propriety. Killing the articles in all of these newsgroups isn't the easiest thing in the world to do, either. This newsgroup would serve as the catch-all for these type of posts, and would also allow people a newsgroup for re-placing articles which are appropriate for this newsgroup, but not to whichever one the article was originally posted to. CONTENT - Appropriate topics for comp.bbs.wanted would include: Requests for finding Internet (or any other such) access in a particular area Requests for finding software or hardware related to running a BBS Requests for BBS lists; the lists themselves should not be posted to the newsgroup, though Answers to any of the above; meta-discussions that may spring out of such answers should be highly discouraged, however Requests for help on a particular piece of software will be tolerated, but these types of posts would likely find more response in a more appropriate newsgroup In addition, requests for dial-up access to hosts not running BBS software (like most public access Unix boxen, most commercial online services, etc.) should be discouraged as well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPOSAL #3 - Create comp.bbs.wwiv PURPOSE - The newsgroup comp.bbs.wwiv would be for general discussion related to the WWIV (World War 4) BBS software, the current/future interfacing of WWIV to the Internet and/or Usenet, and to a lesser extent, the networking capabilities of WWIV and the WWIV-based networks that are currently available. RATIONALE - The feelings I expressed under the comp.bbs.searchlight rationale can be echoed here. A WWIV newsgroup was proposed to alt.config back in November, but unlike the Searchlight newsgroup, this one didn't get created in alt.*. There appears to be some evidence of appeal for WWIV amongst people on the Internet. In addition, the Internet has long been a subject of interest and discussion with people on WWIVnet, with several networked sub-boards (called "netsubs" by WWIV people) existing for quite some time to discuss the Internet. In addition to Internet gatewaying capabilities (see below), WWIV has it's own networking facilities, which date back to 1988. At one point, WWIVnet was the world's largest proprietary BBS network. That can no longer be considered the case, as systems running Waffle and VBBS are now part of the network. WWIV is coming into its own as a BBS software. For quite some time, continued development of the software floundered as author Wayne Bell tried to juggle both development and administration functions for the software. He turned the administrative chores over to another sysop about 8 months ago, and development efforts have come along rather nicely. WWIV-based networking had previously consisted of the following: WWIVnet (run by Wayne Bell and based in California), WWIVlink (based in Illinois) and IceNET (based in New York). One of the more recent additions to the networking software was the ability to create multiple networks. This has led to a million or so little RadDudeNets (as so named by one WWIVnet sysop, as WWIV does appeal to a lot of teenagers and pre-teens) popping up all over the place. The three aforementioned networks still stand out today as the only truly significant national WWIV-based networks, though. In years past, WWIVnet has had some gating (all external and often very klunky) to Fidonet and Usenet. Usenet gating is now accomplished more easily by the WWCP gateware, but that runs with Waffle and connects to WWIV. Internal Usenet support may be forthcoming in the future; word is that Wayne is concentrating on internal Fidonet support (along with internal foreign-language support) right now. In addition, it has been rumored for years that Wayne is planning a Unix-compatible version of WWIV. We'll see, though. CONTENT - Appropriate topics for comp.bbs.wwiv would include: Questions and answers on where to obtain the software Setting up the software Configuring doors and utilities; this would include discussion on the compatibility of doors with WWIV Networking issues related to WWIV, with particular emphasis on connectivity issues related to Usenet/the Internet and WWIV- based networks. The future development of the software, either as envisioned by the readers of the newsgroup or by Wayne Bell Lists of BBSes running the software; ads for individual BBSes should be highly discouraged, though Debating the merits of all these RadDudeNets, provided that such discussions don't degenerate to meta-discussions and/or flame wars Discussion and debate on the use of color and ANSI, with the same caveat as above about meta-discussions and flame wars Discussion about VBBS will be tolerated as well, provided such discussion is limited to the relationship of VBBS to WWIV and/ or WWIV networks, and WWIV network connectivity issues under VBBS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This RFD is being issued as per the advice of "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" (popularly referred to as "The Guidelines"), article ID , written by David C. Lawrence and posted to news.announce.new[groups,users], among others. Please refer to this article if you have any questions about the newsgroup creation process. As for the vote: 1) I would prefer not to serve as the vote-taker. Attribute it to a lack of time (I work a full-time job) and resources (this host is running VMS, not Unix, so it lacks so many of those nifty utilities). I will conduct the vote if no one desires to volunteer, however. 2) It would also be my preference to tack this vote onto the vote for the comp.bbs.development proposal. This would obviously delay the vote for that newsgroup, and may diminish its appeal, so I understand if such an idea is really not desirable. I am simply proposing this particular idea out of conveinence. This may possibly be a moot point, though, as the CFV for comp.bbs.development may very well be issued prior to or concurrent with this RFD. We'll see, though. Also, please remember that the only posted discussion that counts towards the final consideration of this RFD as it moves to a vote is that which is posted to news.groups. I realize that many of the people who are reading this article may be reading a BBS-related newsgroup through BBS gateware and may not have direct posting access to news.groups. However, most of you should have some sort of e-mail access to the Internet. In that case, you may post to news.groups through the number of mail-to-news gateways which exist on the Internet. Below, please find a list of such gateways: ucbvax.berkeley.edu cs.utexas.edu pws.bull.com news.demon.co.uk decwrl.dec.com The syntax that should be used is 'news-groups@hostname' or possibly 'news.groups@hostname' which may be site-dependent. The exception to this is decwrl, which requires a syntax of 'news.groups.usenet@decwrl. dec.com'. There's also anon.penet.fi, but I'm not even going to bother publicizing that site for posting to a newsgroup such as news.groups. :-) That's all for now. Despite the utter verbosity of this RFD (200+ lines, yikes!), I am somewhat lost as to various details of what currently isn't included in these newsgroup charters and what possibly should be included. If anyone out there has more experience than I do with BBSing and the BBS-related newsgroups and would like to volunteer to help refine this RFD, by all means, please feel free to contribute. Look forward to seeing a successful result to all of this. -Sean- Sean Patrick Ryan****fsspr@aurora.alaska.edu or sean@freds.cojones.com 3215 Oregon Dr. #2, Anchorage, AK 99517-2048****907-272-9184****fnord Abortion stops a beating heart****Disclaimer: I didn't inhale, either IDITAROD SCOREBOARD 1993 - MEN 16, WOMEN 5****Read alt.flame.sean-ryan From fsspr@acad3.alaska.edu Thu May 20 09:54:52 1993 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: fsspr@acad3.alaska.edu (Sean "Hardcore Alaskan" Ryan) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.bbs,alt.bbs.allsysop,alt.bbs.internet,alt.bbs.lists.d,alt.bbs.metal,alt.bbs.pcbuucp,alt.bbs.searchlight,alt.bbs.unixbbs,comp.bbs.misc,comp.bbs.waffle Subject: CFV: comp.bbs.{development,searchlight,wanted,wwiv} Followup-To: poster Date: 19 May 1993 13:25:16 -0400 Organization: alaska.edu Lines: 357 Sender: tale@rodan.UU.NET Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net Message-ID: Reply-To: fsspr@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3599 news.groups:72227 alt.bbs:18048 alt.bbs.allsysop:1722 alt.bbs.internet:7950 alt.bbs.lists.d:276 alt.bbs.metal:226 alt.bbs.pcbuucp:154 alt.bbs.searchlight:39 alt.bbs.unixbbs:385 comp.bbs.misc:3238 comp.bbs.waffle:9593 Yes, this is yet another very long article. Have patience. :-) The newsgroup charters are unchanged from the 2nd RFD, so I placed them last. If you already read the 2nd RFD, read up until the ballot. If you didn't read the 2nd RFD, please read the entire article. Please feel free to re-distribute this article wherever appropriate. And don't forget to vote. This is the official Call For Votes (CFV) for the creation of four new newsgroups. These newsgroups are to be called comp.bbs.development, comp.bbs.searchlight, comp.bbs.wanted and comp.bbs.wwiv. TABLE OF CONTENTS A. - GENERAL INFORMATION, VOTING INSTRUCTIONS, VOTING RULES B. - THE BALLOT C. - NEWSGROUP CHARTERS A. - GENERAL INFORMATION, VOTING INSTRUCTIONS, VOTING RULES ----------------------------------------------------------- Discussion ---------- The original RFD for comp.bbs.development was first posted on 15 February 1993. The original RFD for the other newsgroups was first posted on 26 March 1993. These two proposals were rolled into one with the issuance of a 2nd RFD, which was posted on 4 May 1993. The discussion on these proposals was generally favorable. The only dissenting opinions concerned a desire on the part of some to make additions to this proposal, but none of those individuals came forward to offer any specific suggestions when the opportunity was presented to them. Name ---- The names of these newsgroups were accepted as appropriate for the corresponding charters. Moderation Status ----------------- The need for a moderator for any of these newsgroups was not ascertained. Therefore, all are unmoderated. Proposers --------- Wes Garland 3386838@jeff-lab.queensu.ca comp.bbs.development Sean Ryan fsspr@aurora.alaska.edu the other newsgroups General ------- This CFV is being issued as per the advice of "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" (popularly referred to as "The Guidelines"), article ID , written by David C. Lawrence and posted to news.announce.new[groups,users], among others. Please refer to this article if you have any questions about the newsgroup creation process. To pass their votes, each newsgroup will require at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes, in addition to requiring twice as many YES votes than NO votes. Please keep in mind that each newsgroup is being voted on as a seperate proposal, even though they are combined into one voting procedure. The success or failure of one newsgroup will not have any bearing on the success or failure of any other newsgroup being conducted through this vote. In addition, please keep in mind that abstentions on any or all newsgroup proposals are allowed, but they will be treated as null votes, without any positive or negative bearing on the results. Voting Period ------------- The voting period will run from 00:00:00 on 19 May 1993 to 23:59:59 on 18 June 1993, Alaska Daylight Time, which is GMT -8. Any ballots received outside of this period will not count. The begin and end times for the voting period will be as measured on the system clock of the machine receiving the votes. I will attempt to find the time to post CFVs and vote ACKs on a weekly basis during the voting period. However, I will guarantee that only one additional CFV will be posted. Anything else will be time- dependent on my part. Individual ACKs will be sent to all voters. Voting Instructions ------------------- To vote on these proposals, please send e-mail to: fsspr@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu You should be able to use the reply command on your newsreader to automagically mail your ballot to the voting address. To make this whole process easiest on both you and I, please use the ballot which is included later on in this article. If you cannot reproduce the ballot when replying, you may e-mail to the voting address a hand- written ballot. It would be easiest on me if you submit any hand- written ballots in substantially the same form as the prepared ballot appears below. If you reply to this article, please edit out all of the article but the ballot before sending it off to me. My job will be made much easier if I don't have to edit several-hundred-plus-line mail messages just to get to the necessary information. Things should be pretty straightforward if you use the ballot in voting, or as your guide in composing a hand-written ballot. Once you have edited this article so as to leave the ballot, please edit out the template so as to indicate your choices for each newsgroup proposal, and include your name and e-mail address below that. It would be heavily appreciated if you would give your real name here. Though I will not reject votes which contain obvious handles for a name, bear in mind that use of a real name assists me tremendously in the verification process. Since this CFV is going to be read on several BBS networks, here are some special instructions on how voting may be accomplished from a BBS network through gateware: WWIVnet: Send e-mail to fsspr#camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu@(node number of gateway). If you know of a local gateway, please make use of it. Otherwise, you can send it through @506 or @511 (who have agreed to allow their gateways to be listed in this CFV). Please keep net dynamics and geography in mind when using a gateway. @506 is located in St. Paul, Minnesota, U.S.A. @511 is located in Moraga, California, U.S.A. Other WWIV-based networks: Your mileage may vary. Check with your local sysop or {area,group} coordinator. TardisNET can route e-mail through @511. Fidonet: Send NetMail to UUCP at (node number of gateway). In the first line of the body of your message, include the following line: To: fsspr@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu Some newer Fidonet mailers may allow you to place the Internet address directly in the mail headers, instead of specifying the UUCP gateway address. Ask your local sysop which is the case. Also ask your local sysop or hub administrator for the node number and location of the nearest gateway. No one offered to list their gateway in this CFV. Other BBS networks: Your mileage may vary. Check with your local sysop for more information. Voting Rules ------------ Votes posted to any newsgroup will not be counted. Votes e-mailed to any address other than the one designated for voting will not be counted. You may contact me at either of the addresses found in my .sig if you have problems in getting e-mail delivered to the voting address, and I will try to help you out. But I will not accept votes at any address other than the one designated above for voting. Votes must be unambiguous expressions of your choice for each individual newsgroup proposal. Statements such as "I will vote for xxx if..." will not be accepted. The time for discussion on these has passed; you are voting on the individual charters, as outlined at the end of this article. Blanket votes, such as "I vote for all of them" or "I vote against all of them" will likewise be rejected. Only one vote per individual will be permitted. In the event that more than one ballot is submitted from an individual, only the most recent ballot will be counted. Votes must be sent by the individual voting. Forwarded votes will not be counted. Votes mailed through anonymous services will likewise not be counted. B. - THE BALLOT --------------- ------------------------>8-----cut-here-----8<------------------------ Official Ballot for new comp.bbs.* additions (May - June 1993) -------------------------------------------------------------- Please vote yes or no (or you may abstain) on the following proposals: Create comp.bbs.development? Yes/No/Abstain Create comp.bbs.searchlight? Yes/No/Abstain Create comp.bbs.wanted? Yes/No/Abstain Create comp.bbs.wwiv? Yes/No/Abstain Last Name, First Name (email address) ------------------------>8-----cut-here-----8<------------------------ C. - NEWSGROUP CHARTERS ----------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPOSAL #1 - Create comp.bbs.development PURPOSE - The newsgroup comp.bbs.development would be for discussion about developing BBS software, or BBS add-ons, such as "doors" or "mailers", or standardized interface layers thereof. RATIONALE - These discussions currently have no home; widespread discussion has been taking place for sometime in many groups, especially alt.bbs and comp.bbs.misc, and even on occasion in non-BBS- related newsgroups. A single newsgroup would certainly serve the intended audience of such posts more effectively, as well as centralize the discussion. CONTENT - Appropriate topics for comp.bbs.development would include: Where to find interface standards and what those standards should be Programming tricks and tips (both platform-specific and generalized) for the development of BBS software How should drop-files be standardized, or should they be? Implementation of mail-transfer, drop-file, etc., standards Programming techniques Use of tool-boxes, libraries, etc (bugs, advice, features?) Platform-specific drop-files, standards Implementation of General standards Programming bits, to include short postings of sample code (same rules as exist on comp.bbs.waffle, nothing over 60K). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPOSAL #2 - Create comp.bbs.searchlight PURPOSE - The newsgroup comp.bbs.searchlight would be for general discussion related to the Searchlight BBS software. RATIONALE - An newsgroup for Searchlight was created in the alt.* hierarchy recently. This was not a Good Thing. As those who remember the RFD for comp.bbs.misc well know, comp.bbs.* is intended to be the long-term replacement for alt.bbs.*. For this reason, it is doubtful that any new alt.bbs.* newsgroup will find much acceptance among net sites. In addition, the difference in site propagation which exists between altnet and Usenet makes this the logical first place to start in terms of forming a newsgroup. This newsgroup is being proposed as an opportunity to provide a better place for those people who wish to discuss Searchlight. CONTENT - Appropriate topics for comp.bbs.searchlight would include: Questions and answers on where to obtain the software Setting up the software Configuring doors and utilities The future development of the software, either as envisioned by the readers of the newsgroup or by the author Networking issues related to Searchlight Lists of BBSes running the software; ads for individual BBSes should be highly discouraged, though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPOSAL #3 - Create comp.bbs.wanted PURPOSE - The newsgroup comp.bbs.wanted would be for making and answering requests related to BBSes and BBSing. RATIONALE - One type of posting which is all too familiar to readers of BBS-related newsgroups is "XXX access wanted in XXX area code." These appear in a very large number of newsgroups, and aren't the easiest to kill, either. Other request-type postings (usually for software) appear in many newsgroups as well, though probably in a much smaller number of newsgroups than the former category. They are still hard to ignore completely for those not interested in them. This newsgroup would serve as the catch-all for these type of posts, and would also allow people a newsgroup for moving articles out of those newsgroups which are perhaps less than ideal for reaching their intended audience. CONTENT - Appropriate topics for comp.bbs.wanted would include: Requests for finding Internet (or any other such) access in a particular area Requests for finding software or hardware related to running a BBS Requests for BBS lists; the lists themselves should not be posted to the newsgroup, though Answers to any of the above; meta-discussions that may spring out of such answers should be highly discouraged, however Requests for help on a particular piece of software will be tolerated, but these types of posts would likely find more response in a more appropriate newsgroup In addition, requests for dial-up access to hosts not running BBS software (like most public access Unix boxen, most commercial online services, etc.) should be discouraged as well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPOSAL #4 - Create comp.bbs.wwiv PURPOSE - The newsgroup comp.bbs.wwiv would be for general discussion related to the WWIV (World War 4) BBS software, the current/future interfacing of WWIV to the Internet and/or Usenet, and to a lesser extent, the networking capabilities of WWIV and the WWIV-based networks that are currently available. RATIONALE - Many of the things said about comp.bbs.searchlight apply here. A WWIV newsgroup was proposed to alt.config back in November. It generated a pretty substantial amount of discussion, but nothing ever came of it. I feel that the issue does need to be resolved. Speaking of the software itself, I have noticed quite a bit of cross- interest between WWIV users and Usenet users. WWIVnet has hosted several networked discussion areas about the Internet and Usenet for many years. Gating began in earnest last year with the development of the WWCP gateware package. Gating is still in its infancy (i.e. it is nowhere near the size and scope which exists in Fidonet), but a newsgroup could help to further interest in gating. For instance, there was talk about porting WWCP to *ix platforms. Plus, the software itself has made great strides in recent months, and could very well become a major force on the BBS scene in the years to come. CONTENT - Appropriate topics for comp.bbs.wwiv would include: Questions and answers on where to obtain the software Setting up the software Configuring doors and utilities; this would include discussion on the compatibility of doors with WWIV Networking issues related to WWIV, with particular emphasis on connectivity issues related to Usenet/the Internet and WWIV- based networks. The future development of the software, either as envisioned by the readers of the newsgroup or by Wayne Bell Lists of BBSes running the software; ads for individual BBSes should be highly discouraged, though Discussion and debate on items which are WWIV "hot topics," such as the merits of millions of different WWIV-based networks, or the use of color and ANSI, will be tolerated, provided that such discussions don't degenerate to meta- discussions and/or flame wars Discussion about VBBS will be tolerated as well, provided such discussion is limited to the relationship of VBBS to WWIV and/ or WWIV networks, and WWIV network connectivity issues under VBBS. -- Sean Patrick Ryan****fsspr@aurora.alaska.edu or sean@freds.cojones.com 3215 Oregon Dr. #2, Anchorage, AK 99517-2048****907-272-9184****fnord Abortion stops a beating heart****Disclaimer: I didn't inhale, either IDITAROD SCOREBOARD 1993 - MEN 16, WOMEN 5****Read alt.flame.sean-ryan From FSSPR@acad3.alaska.edu Fri May 28 18:11:05 1993 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Hardcore Alaskan Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.bbs,alt.bbs.allsysop,alt.bbs.internet,alt.bbs.lists.d,alt.bbs.metal,alt.bbs.pcbuucp,alt.bbs.searchlight,alt.bbs.unixbbs,comp.bbs.misc,comp.bbs.waffle Subject: 2nd CFV and VOTE ACK: comp.bbs.{development,searchlight,wanted,wwiv} Followup-To: poster Date: 28 May 1993 16:10:06 -0400 Organization: alaska.edu Lines: 476 Sender: tale@rodan.UU.NET Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net Message-ID: <1u5riuINNkuj@rodan.UU.NET> Reply-To: fsspr@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3638 news.groups:73001 alt.bbs:18296 alt.bbs.allsysop:1760 alt.bbs.internet:8142 alt.bbs.lists.d:279 alt.bbs.metal:248 alt.bbs.pcbuucp:176 alt.bbs.searchlight:41 alt.bbs.unixbbs:397 comp.bbs.misc:3313 comp.bbs.waffle:9822 NOTE: I have been receiving reports of e-mail problems. If you have been unable to get your e-mail delivered to the voting address, please inform me of this. Include copies of the bounce message(s). Your vote is important to me. Yes, this is yet another very long article. Have patience. :-) If you have already voted, you may skip to the vote acks. If you haven't voted, please do. The newsgroup charters are unchanged from the 2nd RFD, so I placed them last. If you already read the 2nd RFD, you can skip that part. Please feel free to re-distribute this article wherever appropriate. And don't forget to vote. This is the second Call For Votes (CFV) and mass vote acknowledgment for the creation of four new newsgroups. These newsgroups are to be called comp.bbs.development, comp.bbs.searchlight, comp.bbs.wanted and comp.bbs.wwiv. TABLE OF CONTENTS A. - GENERAL INFORMATION, VOTING INSTRUCTIONS, VOTING RULES B. - THE BALLOT C. - ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF VOTES RECEIVED D. - NEWSGROUP CHARTERS A. - GENERAL INFORMATION, VOTING INSTRUCTIONS, VOTING RULES ----------------------------------------------------------- Discussion ---------- The original RFD for comp.bbs.development was first posted on 15 February 1993. The original RFD for the other newsgroups was first posted on 26 March 1993. These two proposals were rolled into one with the issuance of a 2nd RFD, which was posted on 4 May 1993. The discussion on these proposals was generally favorable. The only dissenting opinions concerned a desire on the part of some to make additions to this proposal, but none of those individuals came forward to offer any specific suggestions when the opportunity was presented to them. Name ---- The names of these newsgroups were accepted as appropriate for the corresponding charters. Moderation Status ----------------- The need for a moderator for any of these newsgroups was not ascertained. Therefore, all are unmoderated. Proposers --------- Wes Garland 3386838@jeff-lab.queensu.ca comp.bbs.development Sean Ryan fsspr@aurora.alaska.edu the other newsgroups General ------- This CFV is being issued as per the advice of "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" (popularly referred to as "The Guidelines"), article ID , written by David C. Lawrence and posted to news.announce.new[groups,users], among others. Please refer to this article if you have any questions about the newsgroup creation process. To pass their votes, each newsgroup will require at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes, in addition to requiring twice as many YES votes than NO votes. Please keep in mind that each newsgroup is being voted on as a seperate proposal, even though they are combined into one voting procedure. The success or failure of one newsgroup will not have any bearing on the success or failure of any other newsgroup being conducted through this vote. In addition, please keep in mind that abstentions on any or all newsgroup proposals are allowed, but they will be treated as null votes, without any positive or negative bearing on the results. Voting Period ------------- The voting period will run from 00:00:00 on 19 May 1993 to 23:59:59 on 18 June 1993, Alaska Daylight Time, which is GMT -8. Any ballots received outside of this period will not count. The begin and end times for the voting period will be as measured on the system clock of the machine receiving the votes. I will attempt to find the time to post CFVs and vote ACKs on a weekly basis during the voting period. However, I will guarantee that only one additional CFV will be posted. Anything else will be time- dependent on my part. Individual ACKs will be sent to all voters. Voting Instructions ------------------- To vote on these proposals, please send e-mail to: fsspr@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu You should be able to use the reply command on your newsreader to automagically mail your ballot to the voting address. To make this whole process easiest on both you and I, please use the ballot which is included later on in this article. If you cannot reproduce the ballot when replying, you may e-mail to the voting address a hand- written ballot. It would be easiest on me if you submit any hand- written ballots in substantially the same form as the prepared ballot appears below. If you reply to this article, please edit out all of the article but the ballot before sending it off to me. My job will be made much easier if I don't have to edit several-hundred-plus-line mail messages just to get to the necessary information. Things should be pretty straightforward if you use the ballot in voting, or as your guide in composing a hand-written ballot. Once you have edited this article so as to leave the ballot, please edit out the template so as to indicate your choices for each newsgroup proposal, and include your name and e-mail address below that. It would be heavily appreciated if you would give your real name here. Though I will not reject votes which contain obvious handles for a name, bear in mind that use of a real name assists me tremendously in the verification process. Since this CFV is going to be read on several BBS networks, here are some special instructions on how voting may be accomplished from a BBS network through gateware: WWIVnet: Send e-mail to fsspr#camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu@(node number of gateway). If you know of a local gateway, please make use of it. Otherwise, you can send it through @506 or @511 (who have agreed to allow their gateways to be listed in this CFV). Please keep net dynamics and geography in mind when using a gateway. @506 is located in St. Paul, Minnesota, U.S.A. @511 is located in Moraga, California, U.S.A. Other WWIV-based networks: Your mileage may vary. Check with your local sysop or {area,group} coordinator. TardisNET can route e-mail through @511. Fidonet: Send NetMail to UUCP at (node number of gateway). In the first line of the body of your message, include the following line: To: fsspr@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu Some newer Fidonet mailers may allow you to place the Internet address directly in the mail headers, instead of specifying the UUCP gateway address. Ask your local sysop which is the case. Also ask your local sysop or hub administrator for the node number and location of the nearest gateway. No one offered to list their gateway in this CFV. Other BBS networks: Your mileage may vary. Check with your local sysop for more information. Voting Rules ------------ Votes posted to any newsgroup will not be counted. Votes e-mailed to any address other than the one designated for voting will not be counted. You may contact me at either of the addresses found in my .sig if you have problems in getting e-mail delivered to the voting address, and I will try to help you out. But I will not accept votes at any address other than the one designated above for voting. Votes must be unambiguous expressions of your choice for each individual newsgroup proposal. Statements such as "I will vote for xxx if..." will not be accepted. The time for discussion on these has passed; you are voting on the individual charters, as outlined at the end of this article. Blanket votes, such as "I vote for all of them" or "I vote against all of them" will likewise be rejected. Only one vote per individual will be permitted. In the event that more than one ballot is submitted from an individual, only the most recent ballot will be counted. Votes must be sent by the individual voting. Forwarded votes will not be counted. Votes mailed through anonymous services will likewise not be counted. B. - THE BALLOT --------------- ------------------------>8-----cut-here-----8<------------------------ Official Ballot for new comp.bbs.* additions (May - June 1993) -------------------------------------------------------------- Please vote yes or no (or you may abstain) on the following proposals: Create comp.bbs.development? Yes/No/Abstain Create comp.bbs.searchlight? Yes/No/Abstain Create comp.bbs.wanted? Yes/No/Abstain Create comp.bbs.wwiv? Yes/No/Abstain Last Name, First Name (email address) ------------------------>8-----cut-here-----8<------------------------ C. - ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF VOTES RECEIVED -------------------------------------- The following votes have been received as of 18:00:00, GMT -8 on 27 May 1993, but have not been counted for the reasons listed. These individuals have been asked to re-submit their ballots. Hopefully, this will serve as a reminder to them. Hamer, Norman maven@eskimo.com sent to wrong address Hofer, Michael mhofer@gotham.east.sun.com sent to wrong address Perkins, Ian q6xn@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca sent to wrong address Sadowski, Janice cotuit@kettleer.win.net vague These are the valid votes I have received as of 18:00:00, GMT -8 on 27 May 1993. They are sorted by last name, though I have also indicated in this list the order in which they were received. I have edited the names and e-mail addresses slightly for aesthetic reasons. If I have caused for any information to be in error as a result, please let me know so I can correct it. And once again, if you have had problems in getting your ballot delivered to the voting address, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!! Your vote is important to me. Order Received -------- | | Name E-mail address | ---- -------------- 78 , 1-9702@wwiv.cojones.com 55 , mitra@pandora.sf.ca.us 38 Ambler, Christopher cambler@cymbal.calpoly.edu 48 Arien, Peter laaaa43@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be 02 Bailey, Allan allan.bailey@tamu.edu 54 Bloor, Konrad eass08@castle.ed.ac.uk 36 Braden, John braden@lincoln.diag.stratus.com 24 Broiles, Greg greg@goldenbear.com 67 Brynell, David gdfwc3!davidb@uunet.uu.net 62 Burrow, William t0fg@unb.ca 60 Bush, Randy randy@psg.com 33 Caldwell, Richard nrc@cbemf.att.com 44 Chernov, Andrew ache@astral.msk.su 29 Clayton, John claytonm@wam.umd.edu 52 Cline, Ernest cline@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu 30 Cummings, Matthew mkcummin@apgea.army.mil 45 Dalrymple, Andy beezer@cc.utah.edu 75 DeFoor, Les 1-9969@wwiv.tfsquad.mn.org 61 Eisenhart, Eric eric@nermal.santarosa.edu 03 Fenner, William fenner@cs.psu.edu 63 Ferrel, Patrick v120qldp@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu 20 Furr, Joel jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu 83 Garland, Wes garland@biol.gis.queensu.ca 04 Gasser, Thomas thomasg@staff.tc.umn.edu 16 Glover, Jeff jeffg@loki.esd.sgi.com 12 Grumbine, Bob rgrumbin@nyx.cs.du.edu 82 Hart, Phil 1-29964@wwiv.tfsquad.mn.org 26 Hartman, Shane shane@spr.com 11 Hatz, Mike mhatz@nyx.cs.du.edu 23 Helou, Gabe gabe@angus.mi.org 47 Horn, Christopher chorn@sod.linet.org 14 Huang, Ping pshuang@athena.mit.edu 21 Husvar, Jerod jerodh@mcs.kent.edu 79 Kirsch, Joseph fez@toz.buffalo.ny.us 71 Klein, Alexander klein@stereo.stgt.sub.org 09 Knight, Ric ric@vnet.ibm.com 76 Kuntzelman, Scott sk6174@katya.acs.ilstu.edu 58 Labovitz, Stuart stu@valinor.mythical.com 07 Lash, Jay jjlash@zodiac.cca.cr.rockwell.com 59 Macassey, Julian julian@bongo.tele.com 80 Malinowski, Dennis spelunke@toz.buffalo.ny.us 53 Manes, Steve manes@magpie.nycenet.edu 72 Martin, David dem@hep.net 64 Mau, Napoleon mau@herky.cs.uiowa.edu 35 Mcclung, Matt matt@ux1.isu.edu 37 Milavec, Igor igor.milavec@uni-lj.si 34 Miller, Richard rick@bcm.tmc.edu 19 Moncur, Michael mgm@world.std.com 28 Moorcroft, Marc smarry@zooid.guild.org 46 Mullaney, Brian bmullane@njcc.wisdom.bubble.org 25 Nesbitt, Murray scocan!pseudo!mjn@yonge.csri.toronto.edu 13 Olson, Eric ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu 66 Owens, Chris cao@dcs.ed.ac.uk 74 Pearson, Robert robert.pearson@njackn.com 69 Peltonen, Ismo ismo.peltonen@tower.nullnet.fi 40 Peterson, Craig craig@osf.org 51 Petro, Herbert hmpetro@uncc.edu 49 Plutchak, Joel plutchak@porter.geo.brown.edu 10 Pool, Ron ron@cce.cornell.edu 17 Pope, Bruce red-eft!qruton!baptpdc@valley.west.sun.com 50 Rogers, Steve srogers@tad.eds.com 01 Ryan, Sean fsspr@aurora.alaska.edu 18 Shambaugh, Scott shambaus@ucs.orst.edu 27 Shiobara, Edward root@ecwav.des.edu 06 Shipley, Rich rshipley@access.digex.net 22 Shirley, Mike mikey@slic.cts.com 32 Sinamark, Ed efs@summa4.mv.com 15 Spear, Geoffrey gspear+@cmu.edu 81 Steinberg, Steven user687y@um.cc.umich.edu 68 Sward, David sward+@cmu.edu 39 Taylor, Thomas thomast@gagme.chi.il.us 70 Tudor, Bobbie tudorb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu 57 Umbright, Guy vagrant@vpnet.chi.il.us 05 Vanegas, Rodrigo rv@brown.edu 42 Walls, Tim twalls@ncc1701d.demon.co.uk 08 Watanapongse, Pirawat pw@cacs.usl.edu 43 Weatherley, Rhys rhys@cs.uq.oz.au 56 Wittenauer, Allen ecereal@crispy.carb.il.us 73 Woodbury, Gregory ggw@wolves.durham.nc.us 77 Yarnell, Chris chris2914@delphi.com 41 Yau, Hun huny@cco.caltech.edu 31 Zirin, Daniel ziridan@echosphere.com 65 van den Hout, Koos koos@kzdoos.hacktic.nl D. - NEWSGROUP CHARTERS ----------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPOSAL #1 - Create comp.bbs.development PURPOSE - The newsgroup comp.bbs.development would be for discussion about developing BBS software, or BBS add-ons, such as "doors" or "mailers", or standardized interface layers thereof. RATIONALE - These discussions currently have no home; widespread discussion has been taking place for sometime in many groups, especially alt.bbs and comp.bbs.misc, and even on occasion in non-BBS- related newsgroups. A single newsgroup would certainly serve the intended audience of such posts more effectively, as well as centralize the discussion. CONTENT - Appropriate topics for comp.bbs.development would include: Where to find interface standards and what those standards should be Programming tricks and tips (both platform-specific and generalized) for the development of BBS software How should drop-files be standardized, or should they be? Implementation of mail-transfer, drop-file, etc., standards Programming techniques Use of tool-boxes, libraries, etc (bugs, advice, features?) Platform-specific drop-files, standards Implementation of General standards Programming bits, to include short postings of sample code (same rules as exist on comp.bbs.waffle, nothing over 60K). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPOSAL #2 - Create comp.bbs.searchlight PURPOSE - The newsgroup comp.bbs.searchlight would be for general discussion related to the Searchlight BBS software. RATIONALE - An newsgroup for Searchlight was created in the alt.* hierarchy recently. This was not a Good Thing. As those who remember the RFD for comp.bbs.misc well know, comp.bbs.* is intended to be the long-term replacement for alt.bbs.*. For this reason, it is doubtful that any new alt.bbs.* newsgroup will find much acceptance among net sites. In addition, the difference in site propagation which exists between altnet and Usenet makes this the logical first place to start in terms of forming a newsgroup. This newsgroup is being proposed as an opportunity to provide a better place for those people who wish to discuss Searchlight. CONTENT - Appropriate topics for comp.bbs.searchlight would include: Questions and answers on where to obtain the software Setting up the software Configuring doors and utilities The future development of the software, either as envisioned by the readers of the newsgroup or by the author Networking issues related to Searchlight Lists of BBSes running the software; ads for individual BBSes should be highly discouraged, though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPOSAL #3 - Create comp.bbs.wanted PURPOSE - The newsgroup comp.bbs.wanted would be for making and answering requests related to BBSes and BBSing. RATIONALE - One type of posting which is all too familiar to readers of BBS-related newsgroups is "XXX access wanted in XXX area code." These appear in a very large number of newsgroups, and aren't the easiest to kill, either. Other request-type postings (usually for software) appear in many newsgroups as well, though probably in a much smaller number of newsgroups than the former category. They are still hard to ignore completely for those not interested in them. This newsgroup would serve as the catch-all for these type of posts, and would also allow people a newsgroup for moving articles out of those newsgroups which are perhaps less than ideal for reaching their intended audience. CONTENT - Appropriate topics for comp.bbs.wanted would include: Requests for finding Internet (or any other such) access in a particular area Requests for finding software or hardware related to running a BBS Requests for BBS lists; the lists themselves should not be posted to the newsgroup, though Answers to any of the above; meta-discussions that may spring out of such answers should be highly discouraged, however Requests for help on a particular piece of software will be tolerated, but these types of posts would likely find more response in a more appropriate newsgroup In addition, requests for dial-up access to hosts not running BBS software (like most public access Unix boxen, most commercial online services, etc.) should be discouraged as well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPOSAL #4 - Create comp.bbs.wwiv PURPOSE - The newsgroup comp.bbs.wwiv would be for general discussion related to the WWIV (World War 4) BBS software, the current/future interfacing of WWIV to the Internet and/or Usenet, and to a lesser extent, the networking capabilities of WWIV and the WWIV-based networks that are currently available. RATIONALE - Many of the things said about comp.bbs.searchlight apply here. A WWIV newsgroup was proposed to alt.config back in November. It generated a pretty substantial amount of discussion, but nothing ever came of it. I feel that the issue does need to be resolved. Speaking of the software itself, I have noticed quite a bit of cross- interest between WWIV users and Usenet users. WWIVnet has hosted several networked discussion areas about the Internet and Usenet for many years. Gating began in earnest last year with the development of the WWCP gateware package. Gating is still in its infancy (i.e. it is nowhere near the size and scope which exists in Fidonet), but a newsgroup could help to further interest in gating. For instance, there was talk about porting WWCP to *ix platforms. Plus, the software itself has made great strides in recent months, and could very well become a major force on the BBS scene in the years to come. CONTENT - Appropriate topics for comp.bbs.wwiv would include: Questions and answers on where to obtain the software Setting up the software Configuring doors and utilities; this would include discussion on the compatibility of doors with WWIV Networking issues related to WWIV, with particular emphasis on connectivity issues related to Usenet/the Internet and WWIV- based networks. The future development of the software, either as envisioned by the readers of the newsgroup or by Wayne Bell Lists of BBSes running the software; ads for individual BBSes should be highly discouraged, though Discussion and debate on items which are WWIV "hot topics," such as the merits of millions of different WWIV-based networks, or the use of color and ANSI, will be tolerated, provided that such discussions don't degenerate to meta- discussions and/or flame wars Discussion about VBBS will be tolerated as well, provided such discussion is limited to the relationship of VBBS to WWIV and/ or WWIV networks, and WWIV network connectivity issues under VBBS. -- Sean Patrick Ryan****fsspr@aurora.alaska.edu or sean@freds.cojones.com 3215 Oregon Dr. #2, Anchorage, AK 99517-2048****907-272-9184****fnord Abortion stops a beating heart****Disclaimer: I didn't inhale, either IDITAROD SCOREBOARD 1993 - MEN 16, WOMEN 5****Read alt.flame.sean-ryan